[BearwWthoutBorders] [SycamoreCanyon] Fw: EdgeLeft: Time to Face The Gun Lobby (David McR}

[David McReynolds]

Thanks Peter - really heart breaking, doubly so when you don't have an
answer.
David

On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 9:06 PM, Peter Crowley <peterwc at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 20:23:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [SycamoreCanyon] Fw: EdgeLeft: Time to Face The Gun Lobby
> (David McR}
> From: davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com
> To: SycamoreCanyon at yahoogroups.com; sp-members at lists.riseup.net;
> debsforumdiscussion at googlegroups.com
> CC: bearwithoutborders at lists.mayfirst.org; Redbadbear at yahoogroups.com;
> marxist at yahoogroups.com; newgreencanada at yahoogroups.com
>
>
> *For reasons unknown (who can fathom the mind of a computer) the final
> paragraph of my own piece (which follows the comments by Hunter) are cutoff. No matter - I'm sending this to the Edge Left list because I think a
> dialogue is important.  Hunter has long since earned the stripes to argue
> his case. That said, here is my response to Hunter's note.
>
> The NRA is indeed a gun lobby, though it counts among its members a number
> of liberals and radicals, including Hunter.
> In 2012 the NRA contributed $3 million to candidates - 96% of whom were
> Republican. Larry Pratt, the executive director of Gun Owners of America
> rushed out a statement putting the blame for yesterday's tragic shooting
> squarely on the gun control lobby!
>
> His logic? "Gun control supporters have the blood of little children
> on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to ensure that
> no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown School
> where  the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency
> of getting rid of gun bans in school zones". One wonders why Mr. Pratt didn't
> go a step further and urge that if only the children themselves had guns
> the tragedy would have been averted? (The real tragedy is that the NRA
> crowd will feel that Mr. Pratt's post was entirely logical).
>
> When I had a child I loved fire works - the whole shebang from fire crackers
> to sparklers to rockets. I built little villages out of cardboard, and
> put them in front of my parents' home and then blew them up with fire
> crackers. Alas, the great war came, and  fireworks were banned. Still, in
> my hunger for them, I wrote their outlets in Ohio and asked for whatever
> old catalogs they had. I got those catalogs, and my vision of peace was
> to see the return of fire crackers.
>
> Well, that return never came. At least not in California or New York. Too
> many children had lost a finger or an eye. But guns are not fire crackers.
> They are designed to kill - animals of all kinds including humans. We all
> must grit our teeth and, as I had to in
> regard to fire crackers, realize that the great gun shows must be a thing
> of the past. The worship of guns must become a memory.
>
> I did not write that guns be outlawed - only that they be registered. I
> did argue that automatic weapons be outlawed. I did argue that it should
> be illegal to carry a a concealed weapon. Nothing that I wrote suggested
> it would be illegal for people to go to shooting galleries. And while I
> admit that I would not hunt deer, that is easy for me to say - I can buy
> my meat in the market, and let others do the killing. As long as people
> eat meat, as I do, they have to accept the right of people to hunt animals,
> provided only they are going to eat them. (I am disgusted at the idea of killing
> any animal "for sport").
>
> Hunter and I are in full agreement that a society committed to war will
> find bullets will hit some of us far from battle. We are in agreement
> that the use of drugs is not the way to solve this problem.
> And I'd say - and suspect Hunter would agree with me - that to think gunviolence is a product of insanity
> is a weak reed. Most of those who are mentally ill are not violent. And,
> sadly, most of those who order troops into battle are not mentally ill.
>
> I'm not sure Hunter and I are that far apart. I've had my say on the
> Second Amendment, I've read it with care.  I think the Supreme Court's
> decision on it was wrong. Remember, the Supreme Court once ruled that
> slaves were property. Laws change and I think in time my legal view will be
> that of the majority.
>
> In the meantime, this will be a long hard battle - expect no help from
> the President, who will only choose battles he can win. It will take
> years, letters to the editor, demonstrations, and, crucially, making it a
> key matter in choosing those we send to Congress.
>
> Meanwhile I know that under the present laws more women will be killed
> despite restraining orders on their boy friends and husbands. And I know -
> statistics bear me out - that in homes where there are guns, the danger of
> being killed by a gun are much higher than in homes without a gun.
>
> David McReynolds
> *
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Hunter Gray <hunterbadbear at hunterbear.org
> > wrote:
>
> **
>
>  **
> *NOTE BY HUNTER BEAR:*
> **
> *When David McReynolds, a good friend with whom I agree on a great many
> matters, writes his always provocative Edge Left column, I send it around.
> On this one, I disagree head on with David on his attack on what he sees as
> "the gun lobby" -- and his efforts to demonize the NRA -- as well as his
> obvious but erroneous belief that firearms are "the problem" in shooting
> tragedies.  I don't see a "Gun Lobby" but the NRA numbers at least four
> million people in this country, most of whom are interested in hunting,
> shooting sports, sensible self-defense. (I've been an NRA member since I
> was 15 years old -- a Life Member for most of my life.) All of these NRA
> members, and a vast throng of non-members, see the Second Amendment as an
> important component of the overall Bill of Rights.  So does the USSC which,
> in its two relatively recent decisions, conclusively clarified the Second
> as a full member of the Bill.*
> **
> *I do agree strongly with David on the effects of virtually endless war
> -- much of this televised daily.  A 20 year old in this country has watched
> War on TV for more than half his life.*
> **
> *Another factor in these tragedies may lie in the increasing use of
> psychiatric drugs, often on children and adolescents, in lieu of bona fide
> counseling -- and in-depth psychiatric analysis.*
> **
> *Personally, I am not interested at this point in getting into yet
> another gun control debate.  However, last July I posted these comments on
> our several discussion lists.  They address the matter of endless War and
> its role in sometimes spiking domestic violence.*
> **
> *I received two favorable comments on this from the Redbadbear list.  No
> one else commented anywhere.*
> **
> **
>  *"I've been speaking and writing of those socio-economic causal matters
> and necessary reforms  since my first piece challenging gun control
> advocates in 1974 -- and discussing the primary causes of crime as racism
> and cultural ethnocentrism, economic deprivation, urban congestion and, in
> that context, interpersonal and value alienation.  [A constructive answer
> to the growing problem of youth gang violence in today's inner cities would
> be reinstatement of the old Neighborhood Youth Corps -- with a strong
> public works employment dimension.]*
> **
> *And I again add this: *
>  **
> *What we never hear is sensible  and depthy conjecture about the domestic
> psychiatric effects of this country's involvement in many years of wars --
> proliferating and endless wars -- which have gone on ever expansively since
> 9/11.  The cost in lives has obviously been astronomical and the horrors of
> technology -- e.g., 120 people, or more, killed by a single explosion
> -- have been televised consistently to the four directions.  If developing
> psychotics, sometimes inflamed by personal economic vicissitudes,  see
> human life as "cheap," it shouldn't be surprising to see these mass
> tragedies sprouting and gushing blood across the U.S."*
> **
> **
> *Expansion of mental health outreach and treatment -- with educational
> campaigns directed at parents and educators and designed to pick up danger
> signs early on.*
> **
> *Not everything violence and crime-wise can be prevented, of course.
> Massive as is the Aurora tragedy, the one in Norway a couple of  years
> ago -- in a relatively "ordered" society -- saw about 70 people killed.*
> **
> *HUNTER GRAY*
> **
> **
> *From:* David McReynolds <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com>
>  *To:* debsforumdiscussion at googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Bruce Cronin <bcronin60 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, December 14, 2012 11:39 PM
> *Subject:* EdgeLeft: Time to Face The Gun Lobby
>
> *EdgeLeft:* Time to Face the Gun Lobby, by David McReynolds
>
> (EdgeLeft is an occasional column by David McReynolds. It may be reprinted
> and
> used without further permission)
>
> It is time to take on the gun lobby. Or, to put
> it another way, how
> many mass killings does i
> t take for us to finally recognize the NRA
> as a greater threat to the security and safety of our children than
> any reasonable law restricting ownership of guns?
>
> One can anticipate a lobbyist from NRA suggesting that if only
> the children had been armed with hand guns the killing would not
> have taken place. But in the land of reason, let us look at
> the
> issues and a possible solution.
>
> First, those of us who have no problems about gun control s
> hould
> pause and realize that our friends in other states view the matter
> differently. In New York City what do I need a gun for?
> But if
> I live in North Dakota,  Nevada,  Utah, or any of those stat
> es
> where hunting is an attraction, and wh
> ere many families have rifles,
> gun ownership is viewed very differently.
>
> New Yorkers might feel the need for a gun if they have a small shop
> and fear robbery, but they are not likely to go target shooting, and
>
> certainly won't be walking around with the gun on their person.
>
> So let's accept the fact that in a country which reaches from Hawaii
> to Alaska, from Florida to
> Seattle, there will be a range of views on
> guns, and on how frequently one is likely to use them.
>
> Second, the Second Amendment, doesn't this settle the debate?
> No - this appeal to the constitution is the weakest of all the points
> used by the NRA. If one reads the
> second amendment it refers
> to the possession of guns in the context of an "orderly militia".
> In
> short, it was meant to protect the *states* against too much power
> and possible military action by the federal government.
>
> Most families in colonial times did not own guns. The guns they had
> took a long time to load, fire, and reload. Except for the fact the
> Native Americans were often frightened by the flash and noise of
> a gun, the man who was trained in firing arrows was about on an
> equal ground. Arrows had two advantages, they were silent
> and when discharged they didn't reveal their location by a puff of
> smoke.
>
> The founding fathers were not even dealing with  revolvers - those
> didn't enter the gun trade until 1814, long after the Constitution had
> been written. Nor were the fo
> unding fathers dealing with semi-automatic
> or automatic firearms. They were dealing with a primitive musket, whi
> ch
> could fire only one shot, and required some time and skill to reload.
>
> But the Constitution did contain other wordings which were later changed
> .
> It allocated the electoral strength of Southern States by giving the slave
> population a percentage of the vote. An indirect endorsement of
> of slavery. And of course the Constitution did not grant the right of women
> to vote. The Constitution is a living document, it has changed greatly
> over
> the years, sometimes through amendments, but just as often by actions of
> the courts. Segregation was not struck down by an act of Congress, but
> by the Supreme Court.
>
> So the Constitution and its Second Amendment is a very weak reed on
> which to base the entire power of the Nationa
> l Rifle Association. And it
> grows still weaker when we realize that many other items of daily use,
> such as automobiles, require both training and a license before we are
> permitted to use them.
>
> But if we sweep away the Second Amendment
> - or give it a more
> reasonable interpretation - where does that leave us? It would mean
> that anyone who wants a g
> un could buy one, if they had a license for
> it, and that such a license would certify they were of sound mind.
> No one, in short, is going to take away the hunting rifle from the
> hunter - but he or she will have to register it. And there would be
> reasonable limits on the kinds of guns that could be had. Hunters do
> not need automatic rifles and they would not be for sale. Rifles for
> hunting, and revolvers - with a license - for personal protection, but
> not to be carried on one's person.
>
> Let's face the reality that this would still leave something
> like over
> a hundred million guns in the hands of the population. Trying to
> seize control of these would mean a modest civil war. So let's assume
> that in some states lots of people will have guns and i
> n some states
> very few - but we have another modest means of control. Ammunition.
> As the great English comedian Eddie Izzard has said, "guns don't kill
> people, bullets do". The production and sale of bullets can be sharply
> controlled.
>
> This leaves us with the problem of the mass shootings which have
> struck such terror (and horror)
> to our hearts. I'm afraid gun control
> won't deal with this. Gun control can help, they can sharply limit the
> number of battered women who are shot de
> ad by their boyfriends.
> Such controls can help lower the murder rate in
> urban areas. But
> the kind of mass murder we have just seen occurred on an even larger
> scale in Norway, where 92 people were killed in a mass murder spree
> last year. (Worth noting that the killer was not a Muslim, but a right
> winger who targeted left wing youth).
>
> Such mass killings will continue to
> occur and to cope with them we
> have to look at our modern soc
> iety, do some serious examination
> of the pathology of such killings, and not try to think we can deal with
> them either by new laws or some new and extended security program.
>
> There is a final co
> mment I would make, with some hesitation, as it
> might seem I was making light of the
> suffering in Connecticut following
> this most recent killing spree. It is to ask us to note that every TV
> station
> made this the top news all day today and I assume
> it will still be the
> top news tomorrow.
>
> But what attention is paid if
> a village in Afghanistan is hit "by error" by
> an American drone? Or, as happened, a wedding party is blown to
> smithereens? Does that make the evening
> news? Is it more than a
> passing item? When Israel jets, purchased with US funds, bomb hellout of a
> terrified civilian population in Gaza, how much attention ispaid to those
> families? When does FOX News (or, for that matter, CNNor MSNBC) interview
> the stricken families?To mention one thing is not to minimize the other.
> But it is to suggest that in a world where the US is complicit in so much
> massive violence, we should not be too stunned when the pathology of such
> mass killing surfaces here at home.(David McReynolds was on the staff of
> the War Resisters League for 39 years, and twice thePresPresidential
> candidate of the Socialist Party. He retired in 1999, and lives in Lower
> Manhattanwith two feline companions. He is the subject of a dual biography
> by Martin Duberman, A SavingA Saving Remayby MaeoewoRemnantRemnant, which
> deals with his life and that of the late Barbara Deming. David can be
> reachedat davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com)d
>
>  HUNTER GRAY [HUNTER BEAR/JOHN R SALTER JR] Mi'kmaq /St. Francis
> Abenaki/St. Regis Mohawk Member, National Writers Union
> AFL-CIOwww.hunterbear.org (much social justice material)   I have always
> lived and worked in the Borderlands.   Key pieces from our big Jackson
> Mississippi Movement scrapbook.  Three consecutive and full pages beginning
> withthis Link:  http://hunterbear.org/a_piece_of__the_scrapbook.htmAndsee my reflection ON BEING A MILITANT AND RADICALORGANIZER -- AND AN
> EFFECTIVE ONE:http://crmvet.org/comm/hunter1.htm   The Stormy Adoption of
> an Indian Child [My Father]:
> http://hunterbear.org/James%20and%20Salter%20and%20Dad.htm(Expanded in
> Fall 2012. Photos. Material on our Nativebackground.)  And see Personal
> Background Narrative: http://hunterbear.org/narrative.htm  (Updated into
> 2012)   For the new (11/2011) and expanded/updatededition of my
> "Organizer's Book," JACKSON MISSISSIPPI -- with a new and substantial
> introduction by me. http://hunterbear.org/jackson.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
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